IRC log started Mon Jan  4 00:00:01 1999
[msg(TUNES)] permlog 1999.0104
12:10am
ωνω SignOff _QZ: #TUNES (BRiX [http://www.qzx.com/brix] :: sleep)
<lar1> Later all! (need sleep)
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01:40am
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<stevely> whats this room all about?
ωνω SignOff stevely: #TUNES (guh)
10:40am
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<binEng> What format is .bz2 ?
<Fare> bzip2
<Fare> see in pub/tunes/utilities/
<binEng> do I need a special unpacker for it?
<binEng> does it work under windows?
11:30am
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<hcf> Tril: u here?
<abi> u betcha, hcf
11:50am
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<tcn> hello
<hcf> hoy tcn
<binEng> hi
<tcn> I just picked up a new modem.. this thing kicks ass!
<tcn> No more lag for me :)
π Fare/#Tunes is waiting for cable modem...
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
<tcn> Nice, this thing's 2-4 times faster than my old 28.8
<tcn> and it's reliable..
<Fare> tcn: ISDN?
<tcn> No, just k56.. actually it's only using v.34 right now.. and it still beats my old USR
<tcn> I think USR just sucks
<tcn> Well, what's up Fare?
<Fare> problems
<tcn> hmm, like what?
<Fare> I spent the week with hardware topics: installing a LAN, getting my home computer back from a friend I let it to
12:10pm
<tcn> hehe.. any luck?
<Fare> I'm now considering making a fresh linux installation on a removeable IDE disk, that I'll share between home and office
<Fare> the LAN works great
<Fare> mucho better than plip
<tcn> hehe, yeah
<tcn> Where do you work?
<Fare> (PLIP is 50kB/s FTP between pentiums, which is pretty good, but it also eat 30-90% CPU)
<Fare> I'm considering partition sizes currently: how much do I need for a whole RedHat+contrib install w/o having to bother about sizes?
<tcn> I don't use redhat..
<Fare> and how easy is it to live with a "fake" install (i.e., all redhat is in /redhat with rpm --root, readonly outside of rpm, with the real /usr being a link, and the real / being synchronized with rsync)
<Fare> tcn: what do you use?
<tcn> Slackware, moving to Debian (haven't got that setup how I want it yet)
π Fare/#Tunes has the need for a sharing installation between mostly disconnected as well as connected computers.
<tcn> I would guess about 500 megs for a "full install", but if it fills a whole CD, maybe more..
<tcn> Hey, I'm working on the same problem..
<Fare> I'm considering like 1.5G for the "full install + GNOME + KDE + office stuff (for my parents)
<Fare> my current disk has already over 600MB, w/o any office stuff or KDE or GNOME.
<Fare> Hum, maybe 1.2GB will do
<tcn> KDE for the parents.. hehe.. that sorta worked for me
<Fare> did it?
<Fare> and did you try GNOME?
<tcn> My dad has an engineering firm, and he wants an automated way to share files between home & office..
<tcn> I might set him up with CVS.
<Fare> code or data?
<tcn> GNOME, no.
<Fare> for data, CVS and/or rsync will do
12:20pm
<tcn> My dad mostly sends CAD files, also word documents, billing, spreadsheets, etc. Hmm, I'll look at rsync.. may be simpler than CVS.
<Fare> rsync is great if it's either single-directed, or you know how to maintain a "lock" so as to determine the riht direction
<Fare> (e.g. a "pumpkin" floppy)
<Fare> CVS is great if there's a server you can always connect to
<Fare> my removeable IDE will be my pumpkin
<tcn> Hey, what's GNOME?
<Fare> www.gnome.org
<tcn> Sounds kinda like KDE (But is "GNU" compatible with "easy to use"?). Is it any more efficient than KDE?
!services1.openprojects.net!! Warning: unable to set modes on channel #kde.  Are your servers' U:lines configured correctly?
<Fare> better architectured
<tcn> I'll have to give it a try, then.
<tcn> Have we agreed on a license policy yet?
12:30pm
<Fare> being alone, I agreed with myself on GPL/LGPL
<tcn> Well, I second that motion
<tcn> I thought it would be a good idea to have a license policy in place if we're writing code which is available to anyone.
<tcn> I wrote another boot loader yesterday.. except I'm still having trouble with protected mode. aaaaaaaaaargh
<Fare> btw, the oskit is out, already
<tcn> Yup, got it.
<Fare> and GRUB, LILO, LOADLIN, SOLO, do a good job as boot loading, too
<Fare> so there is little point in writing a boot loader for an OS
<Fare> you might do it for the sake of it, but don't pretend it's OS development anymore
<tcn> hehe
<tcn> I'm more concerned with protected mode than boot loading, actually. That's still (and probably always will be) a fuzzy subject.
<Fare> protected mode itself is simple
<Fare> the problem is in I/O and interrupt handling
<Fare> (which problem you can avoid in real-mode, since you can rely on the BIOS)
<Fare> which is where SOLO, the oskit, and other stuff come, so as to help you
<Fare> (actually, if you can manage to setup V86 mode, you might still use the BIOS -- as does SOLO, I presume)
<tcn> Yeah, we need a good V86 handler, to call the BIOS from protected mode.
<tcn> Of course, for performance's sake, we want to write our own drivers for important things.
<tcn> I should look at the oskit some more. When I first got it, I said "bsd? linux? what else is new? I'm disappointed! Plus, it's all in C!"
12:40pm
<Fare> performance is not important, to begin with
<Fare> it becomes important when there's something to do at all
<tcn> Yeah. BIOS is expedient :)
<Fare> but harmful
<tcn> I should bring you up to date on my prototype..
<tcn> The goal is run from either Linux or from a clean boot, and bring up a persistent object store.
<Fare> good
<tcn> I have User -- Terminal -- Terminal drivers -- Terminal abstraction -- User Interface -- Objects -- Object Manager -- Storage
<Fare> uh?
<tcn> The User Interface will be my Forth interpreter, for now.
<tcn> User is you, Terminal is screen & keyboard, Terminal Drivers are low-level, Terminal abstraction is a generic text terminal..
12:50pm
<tcn> And the Object Manager handles persistent storage
<Fare> how do you handle communication between persistent and transient objects?
<tcn> Oh, that's Phase 2: ???  :)
<Fare> how do you handle failsafe commitment of updates to the persistent store?
<tcn> I still have to write the object manager, and define exactly what an object is.
<tcn> Right now, I don't really care if it's failsafe, because it's just a prototype.
<tcn> I had an idea about that, though: When a sector is re-written to disk, it's written to a different place, THEN the old one is marked as deleted.. so a loss of power during the write won't corrupt the only copy.
<Fare> tcn: everyone knows that trick. The real problem is: IDE or SCSI offer NO WARRANTY when the sector will ACTUALLY be written
<tcn> Hmmm..
<Fare> caches, etc
<tcn> Is there a way to know when it'll be written, though?
<tcn> Or flush the cache?
<Fare> you MAY flush the cache, but then, performance drops to zero
<tcn> When everything else is idle, the system might as well flush everything
<Fare> "when everything is idle" might exist on a single-user workstation, but not anywhere else
<tcn> Then if things get busy, the disk caches will have to be written out when they're full.
<tcn> Ok, we're off on a tangent
01:00pm
<Fare> ok, so if you know the size of the buffers, AND know the order in which things are written to disk, you may know when the disk is done
<Fare> MAYBE recent versions of the SCSI or ATA specifications address these issues
<tcn> That won't help since there are so many old machines
<Fare> (actually, I'm SURE they do, but I fear they do not do it in a convenient way)
<tcn> The real problem is recovering after a crash
<Fare> exactly
<tcn> The disk storage should be kept in as consistent a state as possible, and during crash recovery, the system must fix any inconsistencies.
<Fare> it's also synchronizing with other hosts, and being able to warranty "this thing has been committed"
<Fare> because different agents have different requirements, we cannot have a one-size-fits-all synch policy, either
<tcn> right.
<tcn> In a later prototype, I'd like to implement *redundant* distributed storage...
<Fare> sure sure sure
<tcn> But for now, I don't give a rat's ass
<Fare> the first thing is 1) implement persistent storage
<Fare> 2) factor it so as to allow different synch policies, yet consistent communication between objects
<tcn> You forgot 0.9) Define an object format
<tcn> That's where I'm at
<Fare> oh, certainly 0) allow for communication between objects with different sets of assumptions (object formats, memory pools, synch policies)
<tcn> I'm not looking for a perfect object format, just something, anything.
<Fare> so first, let's have a low-level object format suited for transient data manipulation
<tcn> Agreed
<Fare> that's the oskit
<tcn> oskit has persistent storage??
01:10pm
<Fare> no, oskit has basic memory pool management and I/O drivers
<tcn> I'll have to take the time to look it oskit in detail. I'll keep in mind that we should be able to use drivers from other OS's in binary form.
<Fare> binary form????
<Fare> what's that?
<Fare> it doesn't even exist!
<tcn> object files, whatever :)
<Fare> the only binary form in which a linux driver exists is .c
<Fare> even linux can't freely reuse drivers in object format
<tcn> Lemme explain
<Fare> there can be .o modules, but they must have been compiled specifically in the same setting as the kernel
<Fare> .o is death guaranteed
<tcn> As long as there aren't too many interdependencies, it should be possible... how much work is entailed, I have no idea :)
<Fare> reusing windows drivers? I wouldn't touch them with a 10' pole!
<tcn> windows, of course not!
<Fare> the oskit does things right
<tcn> I'm thinking, maybe GGI.
<Fare> ggi also
<tcn> There's a bazillion PC video cards (unfortunately) and I don't see us writing drivers for them all anytime soon.
<Fare> why not reuse GGI as is?
01:20pm
<Fare> just add a few adaptations to the GGI sources, as needed
<tcn> Sure. Is it easy to interface to?
<tcn> abi, ggi?
<abi> i haven't a clue, tcn
<tcn> Fare, you know the GGI web site address?
<Fare> www.ggi-project.org
<tcn> thanks
<Fare> it's as easy (yuck) as any C thing
<tcn> Hmm, guess it's time to install GGI and get used to it
<tcn> I just taught myself how to interface C with ASM under Linux.. Later we'll need some kind of "Tunes-to-C" linker.
<Fare> eros released
<hcf> abi: ggi is at www.ggi-project.org
<tcn> eros? another new OS?
<hcf> EROS is at http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~eros/
<hcf> EROS is also "Extremely Reliable OS"
<abi> okay, hcf.
01:30pm
<tcn> Does OSkit have anything for initializing pmode?
<Fare> tcn: if not, I wonder how they use Linux drivers
<tcn> nevermind, found it
<Fare> maybe they have a software emulator for pmode running in real mode?
<tcn> Man, this is so wierd I might not bother. Using C to create a GDT??
<tcn> Hmm.. they use about 100 files in 5 directories to what I do in 5 files..
<tcn> Very academic ;)
<tcn> I can work with this.. it's a different perspective.. :)
01:40pm
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250093.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 915485789 from #tunes
<Fare> C isn't higher-level than assembly
<Fare> it's just more crippled
<tcn> hehe
<Fare> (though somehow portable)
<tcn> It's an assembler that's portable across a certain class of machines
<Fare> it doesn't give you the full power of assembly
<Fare> try c-- for that
<tcn> right. C just plain sucks.
<Fare> and not giving you that power is VERY crippling
<tcn> A good "portable assembler" is Forth.
<Fare> Forth isn't that portable, and comes with a very ill-designed library
<Fare> its two-stack model doesn't fit most hardware
<tcn> It's a good concept, even if ANS forth sucks.
<Fare> plus living with unspecified stack size limitations make it a hard for the programmer, while lack of limitation make it a hell of the implementer or performance
<tcn> Lots of chips adapt easily to 2 stacks. With the 68k series, you just use one of the 7 Address registers..
<Fare> it's a problem of memory management, all the more in presence of multithreading, etc
<Fare> how big do you allocate stacks?
<Fare> FORTH's low-levelness gets in the way and doesn't help.
<tcn> Good question :) I like to have them share the same chunk of memory, one grows top-down, run grows bottom-up
<tcn> s/run/one
01:50pm
<Fare> at least, with LISP-compiled code, you can analyze it, and decide things; FORTH, with its low-level model, forces you to take early decisions at a time you don't have enough info to decide, then live with those usually bad decisions
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<Fare> (C has the same problems, too, but with FORTH, double stacks double the problem)
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
<Fare> (I mean, even for "simple" cases)
<tcn> So you're planning to use a simple LISP/Scheme compiler for the LLL, right?
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<tcn> howdy, bineng
<binEng> hi!
<Fare> sure
<Fare> it's compile into some FORTH thing, but we'll have the high-level information needed to make the decisions about sizes
<tcn> Maybe the whole "LLL" issue will be irrelevant, if the HLL ends up being really "scalable"
<tcn> what's up, bineng?
<Fare> the LLL has always been implementation issue
<Fare> not a specification issue
<tcn> heh
<binEng> tcn, nothing's up, that's the problem.
<tcn> bineng, who's the Unios guy who works for AMI?
<binEng> who?
<tcn> I'll ask Beholder
<binEng> speaking about Beholder, anyone seen him here today?
<tcn> Wow, I just checked the logs. Hardly anyone's been here today.
<hcf> all here: what do u think of holding scheduled irc meetings?
<Fare> hcf: only on topics known in advance
02:00pm
<binEng> hcf: good idea, with or without topics.
<hcf> Fare: rite, available via the web, perhaps email'd
<binEng> maybe even weekly meetings?
<tcn> You can try :)  First step would be to make a schedule of when everyone's available (roughly)
<hcf> binEng: i was thinking nightly, but maybe im nuts
<tcn> hcf: If we do that we won't get any work done.
<binEng> nightly meetings? *every* night?
<hcf> im not saying take away anymore of one's usual time than one usually gives to #tunes
<hcf> im saying more organization of the time spent here
<hcf> s/more/more purposefulness, prelificness, and/
<binEng> yep
<tcn> It's a noble goal
<tcn> Well I'm outta here
<binEng> :(
<tcn> Lateer y'all
<binEng> cya
ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Leaving)
<hcf> binEng: u say weekly meetings?
02:10pm
<binEng> it's an idea
<hcf> Fare: and what of u?
<binEng> In another group I was, we had that. It worked good.
<hcf> hmm, timezones
<binEng> that's a problem. Maybe in the weekends...
<hcf> binEng: can u give me ur toafm
<hcf> abi: toafm?
<abi> it has been said that toafm is times of availability for meetings
<binEng> Weekdays: 17:00 - 20:00 GMT
<binEng> Friday, Saturday: 17:00 - 01:00 GMT
<binEng> Sundays as weekdays
02:20pm
<hcf> k
<Fare> irc meeting works for finding a quick agreement on some details, not for taking grand decisions
<binEng> yes, and for asking somebody about details
<hcf> we need some quick agreements, no?
<binEng> Do you mean soon, or small?
<hcf> binEng: huh?
<Fare> small, soon
<binEng> I don't know. We need to agree on the changes that are to be made to tunes (the project)
<binEng> and that'll have to be soon, yes
<hcf> Fare: does weekly work for u?
<Fare> might
<hcf> Fare: can u give me ur toafm
<binEng> abi: toafm?
<abi> toafm is times of availability for meetings
<binEng> aha! :)
02:30pm
<hcf> abi: yafla
<abi> rumour has it yafla is yet another five letter acronym
<Fare> ahem. looks like SCSI does cache handling right, whereas ATA doesn't.
<hcf> Fare: give me ur toafm
<Fare> So if you want *reliable* persistent storage, you gotta have SCSI, or use vendor specific ATA extensions (which I doubt exist)
<Fare> toafm?
<abi> i think toafm is times of availability for meetings
<Fare> I have no toadm
<Fare> toafm
<Fare> but I might respond to given meetings
<Fare> gotta go, now
ωνω SignOff Fare: #TUNES (Connection reset by pear)
<hcf> so for meetings we need pre-chosen topics, TOAFMs (leading to a chosen time), and what?
<hcf> binEng?
<binEng> umm
<binEng> not necessarily pre-chosen topics...
<binEng> we need someone to lead the discussions, I think
<binEng> and someone to act as secretary and sum up the log
<binEng> .
<hcf> tril -> leader, hcf -> sum'er ?
02:40pm
<binEng> fine for me
<hcf> binEng -> leader, binEng -> sum'er ? ;)
<binEng> nah :)
π hcf/#tunes is away 04/01/99 17:44:04 EDT : food
π Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 20 hrs 11 min 24 secs
<Tril> abi, what is up?
<abi> i heard up was http://slashdot.org/ or underground piano
<binEng> wb Tril
<Tril> hi.. is the maaailing list calming down yet?
<Tril> any of them?
<binEng> yes it is :(
<Tril> it's equilibrium you know. It slows down because nobody can respond fast enough...
<binEng> heh
<binEng> not a mail for hours :(
<Tril> it would only continue growing if there were more people posting.  But we have only 5 or 6, so it's not that bad...
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<LinuxUser> TUNES : There is some UniOS channel on this server ??
<binEng> if everybody replies to all posts, we'd have an exponential growth of traffic :)
<Tril> LinuxUser: Yes, UniOS is using this channel, #TUNES!
<Tril> you can talk about unios right here :)
<binEng> yep
02:50pm
<Tril> binEng's a long time member
<binEng> kinda. Even if now UniOS now isn't that old :)
<LinuxUser> oh!! ok...
<LinuxUser> Some one here have experience with asm ??
<binEng> limited.
<LinuxUser> how much limited??
<binEng> you want exact figures? :) go on...
<LinuxUser> no, I want answers about...!!
<Tril> LinuxUser: what is your question?
<binEng> tril, good point :)
<LinuxUser> At this moment I am under developping an Operating System...
<LinuxUser> It has at the moment some asm libs yet...
<Tril> ok...still no question I can see. go on
<LinuxUser> it now runs on a floppy disk and is going very well...
<binEng> This has nothing to do with UniOS, eh.
<Tril> why not? maybe he is writing uniOS
<LinuxUser> so, I enabled the PMODE routine... and then the computer reboots !!
<binEng> tril: yeah, to surprise us :)
<Tril> LinuxUser: did you do a far JMP to initialize the eip?
03:00pm
<LinuxUser> yes
<Tril> ok, you've exhausted my knowledge :)
<LinuxUser> I did all very well ...(I hope!!)
<Tril> hehe.. do you wanna send us the source to look at it, even if we aren't expert asm programmers?
<binEng> tried on another machine? (desperate suggestion)
<LinuxUser> but it allways reboots, even if I change something, what I think that is not necessary...
<Tril> are you using paging or segmentation? did you setup the GDT and LDT correctly
<LinuxUser> yes, I am using paging when I switch to PMODE!!
<Tril> what is your memory model?  flat?
<LinuxUser> what you want me to say ??
<LinuxUser> what descriptors I made ??
<LinuxUser> Is what you want to mean with it ??
<Tril> well, flat mode has just one segment and all the code runs in it, with different page tables.
<Tril> can you send me the code?
<binEng> I've got a tutur if you want to see it.
<LinuxUser> I made one 4GB Page to code32, other to DATA32...
<LinuxUser> executable and read/write respectivelly...
<LinuxUser> eih! some here yet??
03:10pm
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Ping timeout for binEng[dialup116-2-14.swipnet.se])
π hcf/#tunes is back
ωνω binEng2 [bineng@dialup41-3-33.swipnet.se] has joined #tunes
<Tril> ......
<Tril> did you setup all the interrupts?
<LinuxUser> binEng2 : You have a good, real good tutorial about PMODE ??
<Tril> if you don't it may switch back to realmode and not go to the right address, causing a reboot
<binEng2> I don't know how good it is, but it seems versatile
<LinuxUser> Tril : I put the interrupt register with , limit 0, address 0
<LinuxUser> so, what you think ??
<Tril> i dunno..i think there's always NMI which can trigger a swtch back to realmode!!  I don't know what I am talking about though...
<LinuxUser> binEng2 : can you send me the tutorial ??
<Tril> LinuxUser: I have a mailing list for os programming help, just like you are asking.  It's called OS-HELP, do you want to subscribe and ask your question there?
<binEng2> LinuxUser, ok trying
<LinuxUser> yes, I want, how I can subscribe ??
<binEng2> http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-71548/PMTUTOR.zip
<Tril> LinuxUser: Go to http://www2.tunes.org/cgi-bin/list-control. You can subscribe there by choosing the OS-HELP list from the menu, entering your address, and click "Do it"
<Tril> or if you like using mail to subscribe, there are instructions on that page too
<LinuxUser> binEng2 : I cann't make ftp to that ??
<binEng2> sure you can
ωνω binEng2 is now known as binEng
<LinuxUser> thanks Tril !!
03:20pm
<Tril> you're welcome.. nobody has used that list yet, but there are people on it. I hope some of them will help you.
<hcf> Tril: hav u read the scroll about irc meetings (rite b4 u returned from the dead)?
<binEng> strange, I can't get throu with ftp... can I mail it to you?
<LinuxUser> thanks, again, I hope someone will discover what is the problem!!
<Tril> hcf: no, hold on i'll read irc logs as soon as i finish up this email
<LinuxUser> binEng : can you make dcc with your irc client ??
<LinuxUser> help dcc
<binEng> I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I've never been able to send anything over DCC
<hcf> Tril: i figured out why i was getting biff'd on bespin, bash's MAILCHECK var was set
<Tril> hcf does that write the first 5 lines of the msg to yer screen or just "You have new mail." ?
<hcf> just u hav mail
<Tril> binEng: /dcc send Nick Filename
<Tril> hcf: you don't want to get "You have new mail" written to the screen?  Hmm
<binEng> LinuxUser?
<abi> somebody said LinuxUser was using paging when I switch to PMODE!!
<hcf> LinuxUser: /dcc get nef
03:30pm
<LinuxUser> binEng : did you send something ??
<binEng> yes...
<hcf> Tril: not to the bespin telnet session, i pop it instead
<LinuxUser> I dont see anything !
<binEng> I don't get throu
<hcf> Tril: getting biff'd everytime thers a new mlist msg would be annoying
<binEng> DCC Send of PMTUTOR.zip to LinuxUser timed out...
<binEng> -
<binEng> see? :(
<LinuxUser> binEng : something is wrong !
<binEng> LU, I guessed so too :)
<LinuxUser> How you made it ??
<binEng> made what
<hcf> LinuxUser: u gonna do '/dcc get nef'?
<LinuxUser> send it ??
<binEng> I tried everything... /dcc send, throu the menus...
<LinuxUser> can you make again ??
<binEng> hmm... packet size?
<hcf> LinuxUser: /dcc get nef
<LinuxUser> oh! thanks ... so many time, I didn't use it !!....
<binEng> DCC ports?
<binEng> DCC Send of PMTUTOR.zip to LinuxUser timed out...
<binEng> -
<hcf> binEng: he got it, from nef
<binEng> from who?
<LinuxUser> binEng : do /dcc send linuxUser pmtutor.zip
03:40pm
<Tril> nef/@#skism
<Tril> hcf's alter-ego on irc
<LinuxUser> can you offer the file or not ??
<LinuxUser> binEng ??
<binEng> no I can't. sorry.
<LinuxUser> it to me said : connection refused ...
<binEng> unless... hang on
<binEng> http://members.xoom.com/unios/PMTUTOR.zip - if you can come up with what the ftp address might be, I can't seem to d/l ftp today
<LinuxUser> ok, thanks all of you around this channell, I hope only to know what is the problem
<LinuxUser> with some much reboots...
<Tril> LinuxUser wait!
<LinuxUser> what, Tril?
<Tril> if you try Bochs it lets you debug Pmode programs without rebooting, using emulation.  http://www.bochs.com/  .. _QZ says it is quite good, but it is commercial (30-day trial period).
03:50pm
<Tril> it is only $25 though, if you are writing an OS you might consider buying it if it is useful.
<LinuxUser> but, I am writing the OS on Linux !!
<Tril> LinuxUser: what do you mean?
<Tril> You use the GNU assembler for it?
ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Ping timeout for hcf[escher.sdi.agate.net])
ωνω hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] has joined #tunes
<binEng> hey let's discuss something. Anything.
<Tril> Bochs can run in Linux.
<Tril> binEng: I just wrote ya an email
<binEng> exciting! I'll have a look
<binEng> k, reading
<Tril> It's very long... 
<Tril> I wrote most of it yesterday, but didn't send it because it wasn't finished!  :P
<Tril> now I have to read irc logs because I promised hcf
<binEng> long, yes
<binEng> Tril, is the Tunes language interpreted?
<Tril> binEng: did you figure out bzip2? it looks like Fare didn't answer your question
<binEng> LinuxUser: I can still mail you the tutor, it's not big.
04:00pm
<binEng> Tril, yes I did
<Tril> hcf: you need to fix abi when someone says "Tril: u here?" and she says "you betcha"
<binEng> :)
<binEng> Tril: u here?
<abi> u betcha, binEng
<Tril> especially if i am not here... if she is answering at all, she better look at my idle time or something.
<binEng> hcf: u here?
<abi> u betcha, binEng
<Tril> sdklfah: here?
<abi> u betcha, Tril
<Tril> anyone here?
<Tril> hmm... artificial stupidity
<binEng> :)
<binEng> abi: who's here?
<abi> u betcha, binEng
<hcf> Tril: il try to fix it
<hcf> Tril: along w/ all the other broken things
<binEng> can I have a look at the code?
<hcf> abi: infobot?
<abi> it has been said that infobot is at http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~infobot
<hcf> binEng: go there
<hcf> dl the src
<hcf> version 0.42.3
<binEng> well 43.2
<binEng> as it seems to me :)
<hcf> Tril: btw, i fixed the invalid regexp thing
<hcf> Tril: so everyone has s/s now
<binEng> Is the Tunes language interpreted?
<Tril> U fixed the shell escape hole?
<Tril> binEng: did u read the entire msg yet?
<binEng> no
<Tril> keep reading :)
ωνω SignOff LinuxUser: #TUNES (Ping timeout for LinuxUser[bjas1-p8.telepac.pt])
<binEng> k :)
<hcf> Tril: as far as i can tell, that hole doesnt exist/work
<binEng> the hole doesn't work? interesting aspect.
<hcf> Tril: i hav some further reading to do, to find a prevention method
π hcf/#tunes 's lifework is finding prevention method for vaporholes
<hcf> s/method/methods/
04:10pm
<binEng> Tril: are compiled programs type-checked?
<Tril> well, any expressions in them which can't change (i.e static code) are type checked during compiling
<Tril> any input is   type-checked at the time it is input , including arguments...
<Tril> i think
<binEng> I mean... compiled code can still be hacked...
<binEng> How are security issues dealt with as type-checking/errors?
<Tril> how are you going to get access to the compiled code to corrupt it?
<Tril> you need to go through an object's interface to access anything, and that can type-check you
<binEng> what's an interface in Tunes?
<Tril> i think it's the same thing 
<Tril> hcf: i read the log
<binEng> the same thing as in mOS?
<hcf> Tril: what r ur opinions of irc meetings?
<Tril> i have virtaully unlimited toafm but I want meetings so I don't spend all my time here
<Tril> what are the current topics for the channel today?
<Tril> abi, topics?
<abi> bugger all, i dunno, tril
ωνω binEng has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: Notice there is no topic here!
ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-201.m2-4.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes
<Tril> Behold!
ωνω hcf has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: VOID
<binEng> hi hi
04:20pm
<Beholder> Hello All :)  Tril: Problem.  Web guru's did not respond to my request (yet), do you think we should move ahead and start our own design changes?
ωνω hcf has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topic: irc meetings
ωνω binEng has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topic: irc meetings and site design
<hcf> binEng++ better
<Tril> Beholder: Sure! I thought you weren't available for a couple weeks.
<Tril> Freehive probably won't pick up until everyone is back from vacation.
<Tril> My school starts tomorrow
<Beholder> Tril:  My school starts on Wednesday... I'm still very busy at the moment, but I do have  time to discuss some changes, if you feel like it at this moment
<Tril> absolutely
<Beholder> Anyone got any ideas to start off?
<binEng> with?
<Beholder> Tunes Web Page.
<Beholder> How do we make it more "open"?
<Tril> yes. I wanted to make several main sections, one for each of the major features of TUNES.  Starting with reflection, persistence, distribution, module-system, configuration
<binEng> I remember I had a brief look at it a long ago when I was browsing the web. I was turned away quickly...
<binEng> How about a structure resembling the UniOS' one?
<hcf> Beholder: the things i mentioned last(?) week in dcc chat apply here
<Beholder> Yes they do
<Tril> Also, separate navigation for different auddiences: New to tunes, learning tunes, and familiar with tunes
<Tril> what did you guys discuss?
<Beholder> Tril:  That would have to be on the index(?) page
<hcf> Beholder: u can use/say em in any form, i dont recall em all
<Beholder> hcf: I'll have to check my logs... one sec.   Oh wait, I think one was the fact that we needed a list of what people are currently working on, and also a full members list, with links to home pages and ICQ UIN (if applicable)... kinda like the UniOS members page, but with current work along with past work
<hcf> Beholder: yeah
<Beholder> One thing that binEng keeps pointing out, which is very true, is the fact that the whole page needs total consitency, for readability
<Beholder> hcf:  There was one more point... do you remember?  (I can't)
<binEng> well, the Tunes site HAS consistence - it's consistently bad :)
04:30pm
<Tril> well, we discussed the logo and colors before..
<binEng> what logo?
<Beholder> bin: 
<Tril> beholder wanted a logo
<hcf> Beholder: i hav it in a sec, i just found a log :)
<Beholder> bin: exactly... no logo yet.
<binEng> guessed so
<Beholder> I'm gonna turn my logging on :)
<hcf> Beholder: just for things not in #tunes
<binEng> Tril: that post of yours makes some sense
<hcf> status for members, groups, (sub)projects, basically everything
<hcf> s/status/statuses/
<Tril> binEng: that post should serve for a basis of the Evaluation page (one main feature)
<binEng> the language is pretty much integrated in the whole system, right?
<hcf> Beholder: status includes past, current, future work, goals, etc
<Tril> binEng: "the language" is just one view of the whole system. In that view, the whole system IS the language.
<Beholder> hcf:  Yes, anything relavent.  It actually shows that the project is making progress
<binEng> How come all attention has been turned to Tunes? What about UniOS?
<Tril> here's how i see it:
<hcf> Beholder: if need be lump terms: work, goals, etc into the 'contributions'
<Beholder> bin:  We have a good page :)  
<binEng> heh
<Beholder> bin:  I also am working on some other docs at the moment
<Tril> In order to decide whether UniOS wants to merge with tunes,  tunes needs to be understandable.
<binEng> guesso
<Tril> So until tunes is clear, no one is expected to be part of it
<binEng> ok, back to the site
<Beholder> Tril:  Agreed, the definition is too spread out right now.  
<binEng> How about a "coordinator's column"?
<hcf> binEng: a renaming of what Beholder already did?
<Tril> is a coordination mailing list needed?
<binEng> hcf: something like that
<Tril> I was thinking of creating a tunes-www  list for discussing changes to the web pages
<binEng> An exact log of what and when something changed on the site. This is something I want for UniOS too.
<Tril> (not necessarily the same as a coordination list)
04:40pm
<binEng> A list of documents, as in UniOS.
<hcf> Beholder: the other stuff i mentioned was in the nature of advertising, which we rnt ready for yet
<Beholder> hcf: Ok
<Beholder> Tril:  Coordinator list?  Hmm... I think that it may be called for.
<binEng> A more expressive, interesting and informative first page.
<Tril> binEng: the log of changes is already there, it's in CVS. It can be accessed if we install Bonsai
<Tril> binEng: a list of documents is there, in the papers/ directory, but I agree there need to be more.
<binEng> well it has to be visible on the first page.
<Tril> binEng:  first page, I agree
<Tril> binEng: news IS on the first page
<binEng> that's not the kind of news I mean, even if what is there is needed too.
<Beholder> All I know is how I did the UniOS one, how about (if you have not already) take a look at it (the menu system, that is), and we can decide if it's right (we can use diff colors and graphics if needed)
<hcf> Tril: dont forget to list only the newest ten or so news items
<Beholder> I only list 3, due to my layout
<binEng> I wouldn't give much for the documents that are on the site...
<Tril> hcf: we haven't had that many news items yet
<Tril> bineng what do you mean?
<binEng> "The TUNES Charter" isn't very good. Skip the official tone.
ωνω _QZ [brand@p0wer.qzx.com] has joined #tunes
<Beholder> May I also suggest an RFC section, where you put all your proposed final documents/specs to be flamed or praised?
<Tril> I like AIOS' RFC procedure for suggesting ANY idea for the project
π _QZ/#tunes is GONE ( fucking computer illiterate neighbors )
<Tril> abi, aios?
<abi> i haven't a clue, tril
<Tril> aios is at http://www.blkbox.com/~cravey/aios/
<binEng> There's not many documents...
<binEng> does abi learn that way?
<Tril> their project is pretty much dead... they wanted to make an "AI OS" as you can guess.. it lost direction.
<Tril> abi, aios?
<abi> i guess aios is at http://www.blkbox.com/~cravey/aios/
<Tril> bineng, yep
<Beholder> I just invited a UniOS member in the channel if it's ok
<binEng> Generally, the site is hard and nonintuitive to browse
<Tril> binEng: all the things you say are obvious.  But no one has VOLUNTEERED to work on them! There's no reason to continue pointing them out, if no one is going to fix it!
04:50pm
<binEng> Ok ok. So why is going to do all this?
<binEng> why=who
<Beholder> I
<Beholder> I'm sure I could do the basic layout, but it's the updates that take lots of work
π binEng/#tunes volunteers to at least some of the update stuff
<Beholder> News and things are easy to handle when you know they are happening.  It's the task of converting all the original site to the new format that takes a while. 
<binEng> yep
<Beholder> Does anyone know how to do frames? 
<hcf> ther must be no www.tunes.org/oldsite
<hcf> either use (convert, whatever) the stuff or rm it
<hcf> Beholder: frames if TOTALLY necessary
<Beholder> hcf: I don't use frames on the UniOS page, it just makes it harder to update the navigation menu
<hcf> Beholder: thats a myriad of ways for separate nav from body w/o doing frames
<hcf> SSI include in one way
05:00pm
<Tril> Beholder: I said before, if there are frames, there have to be another page that is identical, without frames. both must be updated at the same time.  But this update mechanism is already in place, so it shouldnt be difficult to do that if you want a frames page.
<Tril> hcf: what do you mean by oldsite/?  I don't see one..
<hcf> Tril: hypothetically
π binEng/#tunes is continously wondering about the Arrow language
<hcf> starting over and just leaving the old site in something like oldsite/
<Beholder> I think we can do it without frames, I use tables to simulate the look
<Beholder> So what is the preference, menu at the left, right, top, bottom?
<hcf> top
<Beholder> Actually disregard bottom... that one is difficult
<binEng> top is fine
<Tril> top is the way it is now.. I think everyone likes it (_QZ, fare)
<Tril> even though it's not really nav, since it's only on 1 page
<Beholder> Ok, what about colors set?   Anyone know any pages with good clean colors sets that we can use?
<hcf> no forced colors
<Beholder> hcf: OS defualt colors?  Ick.
<binEng> #FFFFCC is good for background (pale yellow)
<hcf> Beholder: os? i mean user set browser colors
<Beholder> hcf: Thats just as bad.
<hcf> Beholder: the os is not the browser...yet
<Tril> Fare agrees with hcf on this one..
<hcf> Tril: more like hcf agrees w/ Fare
<Tril> again, we can have more than one page, auto-generated from the same source. That's all set up and waiting to be used.
<Tril> one with color, one without
05:10pm
π hcf/#tunes sees no need for a color one, but whatever floats ur collective goats
<Tril> I am biased toward my page's colors.. www.pacificrim.net/~dem/domain.html  (Is this really as slow for you as it is for me?)
<Beholder> It came in fast on this machine.
<binEng> That resembles what I suggested for the UniOS site
<Beholder> bin:  :)  very close.  
<binEng> I'm working an a suggestion
<binEng> an=on
<Tril> also if we have color or fonts or any of that, it should be done with DSSSL or CSS
<Beholder> Tril: ???  I use netscape composer for everything :)  Don't know any HTML at all
π hcf/#tunes watches tril's domain hitcount skyrocket
<binEng> :)
<Tril> hey, that page sucks, so I never give it out
<Tril> same iwth the tunes page, tho...:)
<Beholder> Tril: The color scheme is ok.  I'd suggest a graphical background though.
<Tril> fare wants a musical score for bg
<Beholder> Something that does not interfere with the text
<Beholder> Tril: Are you serious?
<Tril> for the   worst page I have ever seen, see http://filedump.ml.org/~toogam/
<Tril> (that is another alias for bespin)
<Beholder> Tril: I'd sooner kill people with musical scores on their pages, than visit them :)
<Beholder> Tril: Especially "Eye of the Tiger" or something equally lame :)  Damn MP3 pages have thoese :)
05:20pm
<binEng> http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html
<Tril> oh, wait, toogam's page used to be worse :)
<Beholder> Re: ~toogam:  Terrible... Superman Theme?!
<binEng> I used the UniOS site, since my url is too long to write :)
<Beholder> bin: Good job, I like it
<binEng> just a draft, of cource
<binEng> course
<binEng> how about the colors?
<Beholder> bin: I like them, they don't put me to sleep
ωνω Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.ml.org] by crichton.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.ml.org])
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ωνω Mode change [+iw] for user TUNES
ωνω TUNES [tunes@bespin.ml.org] has joined #tunes
ωνω Topic for #TUNES: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topic: irc meetings and site design
ωνω topic set by binEng [Mon Jan  4 16:23:12 1999]
ωνω [Users(#TUNES:7)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ _QZ       ] [ Beholder  ] [ hcf       ] [ binEng    ] 
[ abi       ] [ Tril      ] 
ωνω Channel #TUNES was created at Wed Dec 30 09:08:43 1998
ωνω BitchX: Join to #tunes was synced in 6.694 secs!!
<hcf> why the idleness?
>>> hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] requested PING 915499752 from #tunes
<binEng> I wonder that too
<hcf> stale topic?
<hcf> sudden urge to procreate?
π binEng/#tunes is working on the Tunes main page
<hcf> binEng: ok, ur excused
π Beholder/#tunes is looking up tunes server stats, and provider
π hcf/#tunes pats binEng upon his head, and sends him on his way
<hcf> Tril: chime in
π Beholder/#tunes wonders if there are any way to get a domain name for free
<Tril> i'm talking to bob
<Tril> beholder asked what speed connect we have
π Beholder/#tunes invited Enrique in here about an hour ago... didn't show.
05:30pm
<Beholder> bin: Do you think making graphical nav buttons at the top would look good, maybe graphical nav bar?
<binEng> I dunno
<Beholder> Grap nav bars have to be designed to fit the color set, so I guess the colors would have to be decided.  How about a backgroud graphic?
<hcf> Beholder: why cant u design in text 1st?
<hcf> then do the gfx aspect
π binEng/#tunes nods
<Beholder> hcf:  That can be done.  I just think the other way around :)
π hcf/#tunes pouts
π Beholder/#tunes wonders why everyone is doing actions
π Beholder/#tunes is going to try designing a logo that encompases everything that Tunes is...
<hcf> Beholder: combined w/ that which UniOS is?
<Tril> abi: free dns is http://www.dhs.org
<Tril> abi: free dns is also http://www.eu.org/
<abi> okay, Tril.
<Beholder> hcf:  Sure... actually it's all just words anways, I'm just gonna get creative and make what I want, and hope everyone likes it :)  I really can't design logo from a concept :) heh heh heh
<Tril> abi: free dns is also http://soa.granitecanyon.com
<abi> okay, Tril.
<binEng> abi: free dns?
<abi> free dns is http://www.dhs.org or http://www.eu.org/ or http://soa.granitecanyon.com
<binEng> advanced!
<Beholder> actually there is a free web page provider who does the DNS also... I think I could have unios.jumpnet.com (I think)
π Beholder/#tunes does all his drawing in Corel Draw 8...  he has been using Corel Draw since 1.0 :)
<Beholder> Anyone think of a different mission statement for the project yet?
05:40pm
<binEng> http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html <-- Better now!
<Tril> Beholder: login to your bespin account, read /users/dem/tl/tunes/work.txt
<Tril> I'm trying to organize all the mission statements
<Tril> there are tons
<Beholder> Tril:  You have to pick one.  Then it sticks :)
<binEng> Hey, comment the site design, plz
<binEng> abi: tunes?
<abi> tunes is in my head
<Beholder> bin: What did you change?  Maybe my cache server has not updated
<Tril> he moevd the nav to   the left
<binEng> still no frames
<Beholder> bin:  Awesome.
<Tril> Beholder: see /pub/tunes/irc/1999.0101 line 365
<Tril> (and line 370)
<Tril> ok I'll paste it for convenience
<Tril> <Tril> what if we describe the tunes project as more of what it actually is (tur
<Tril> ning out to be), than what we want it to be
<Tril> <Tril> say "TUNES is a loose-knit collection of developers, researchers, and other interested people sharing ideas, and (hopefully someday) code"
<binEng> that's a good idea
<Tril> <Tril> how about a LASTING software system that can evolve? does that accurartel
<Tril> y describe all our ideals
<Beholder> Tril:  I think something a little more inspiring might be necessary 
<binEng> What's this line for: $Id: index.phtml,v 1.6 1998/12/30 23:21:56 dem Exp $
<Tril> that's not my point. I was wondering if it was accurate.
<Tril> binEng: that's the CVS version string.  1.6 is the CVS version , and the rest is the cvs filename, the date/time and user who did the change
<Beholder> Tril:  Yes, very accurate
<Beholder> Tril: Can you have CVS store in the meta tags of the HTML, and not the page itself?
<Tril> which part, the system that can evolve, or the loose collection of interested people?
<Tril> both?
<binEng> NS crashed on me...
05:50pm
<Beholder> Tril:  The loose collection part. 
<Tril> Beholder: Yes, you can.  I like to see the date changed at the bottom of every page, though..
<Beholder> bin: NS does that sometimes.
<binEng> I know :)
<Tril> you can put the cvsid in a html comment, <!-- [here] -->
<Tril> or anywhere
<binEng> can I remove the cvsid from the page then?
<Tril> yes, if it's viewable in the source
<Tril> binEng: your version isn't updated from CVS anyway, so you can do what you want
<binEng> yes, but I meant if I should leave space for it...
<Beholder> Tril:  I find it a bit distracting myself, and probay new people would see it that way also I think.
<Tril> Beholder: in an html comment is fine
<Tril> are we going to get to major content and hierarchy-level changes?
<Tril> do we have to do the general appearance first
<binEng> both are needed, no special order is necessary
<Beholder> I think we should plan the menu layout right now:  I'll suggest (from top to bottom):  TUNES INTRODUCTION, MEMBERS LIST,  PROJECTS LIST,  DOCUMENTS, RESOURCES,  JOIN
ωνω SignOff Beholder: #TUNES (Read error to Beholder[ppp-201.m2-4.sub.ican.net]: Connection reset by peer)
ωνω Beholder [beholder@ppp-201.m2-4.sub.ican.net] has joined #tunes
06:00pm
<Beholder> Sorry I got disconnected, did I miss anything?
<Tril> no that reconnect was instant
<binEng> nope, they're quiet as deads
<Tril> err... no I was trying to type a response
<Tril> Why member list so high up?
<binEng> I'd suggest "Contact us" instead of "join".
<Tril> I think join and members list should be combined somehow..
<Tril> and left at the bottom
<binEng> MEMBERS LIST -> THE MEMBERS (more than a list)
<Tril> the team?  Is that more inspiring, Pat?   :)
<binEng> menu at the left or at the top?
<Tril> top! 
<binEng> I'll change that
ωνω Closing Link: TUNES[bespin.ml.org] by tolkien.openprojects.net (Ping timeout for TUNES[bespin.ml.org])
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ωνω Mode change [+iw] for user TUNES
ωνω TUNES [tunes@bespin.ml.org] has joined #tunes
ωνω Topic for #TUNES: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topic: irc meetings and site design
ωνω topic set by binEng [Mon Jan  4 16:23:07 1999]
ωνω [Users(#TUNES:7)] 
[ TUNES     ] [ Beholder  ] [ _QZ       ] [ hcf       ] [ binEng    ] 
[ abi       ] [ Tril      ] 
ωνω Channel #TUNES was created at Wed Dec 30 09:08:43 1998
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<Beholder> I dunno about team.  What does everyone else think?
<binEng> rather members
<Tril> also, Fare rather thinks the "introduction" should be part of the FAQ..
<binEng> "Our members"?
<Tril> I don't know that i agree..
<Tril> I don't understand what you mean about "list all the members"
<Tril> who is a member that isn't listed?  Only those who requested to be listed are there.
<Tril> oops, lar1 isn't there yet. ok sue me :)
<Beholder> Tril:  Introduction and FAQ are different.  People have little patience for FAQ sized document, introduction is a little blurb on the main page that explains everything quickly
<binEng> DOCUMENTS should come on the PROJECTS pages
<Beholder> Tril: Members, and mailing list people are different.  Members are people who are active in the project and contribute things.  You need to list them, what they are working on, and what they have done
<hcf> if the intro is a blurb, then perhaps, use same intro for site and faq
<binEng> What's "resources"?
<Tril> I think he means the review project. It should just say "Review project" not resources
<Beholder> hcf:  I agree.  To get people's interest you need to give them something small, easy to read, that somehow summarizes everything Tunes is, and what it wants to be
<binEng> but that's "projects", not?
<Beholder> RESOURCES:  FTP Site, mailing list, links, etc.
06:10pm
<Tril> Beholder:is it possible to explain everything quickly about TUNES? such a intro may need to be full of links to other sections with more detail
<binEng> how about not having the navigation bar on the first page, but rather list the alternatives (with links) and explain them?
<hcf> binEng: an index?
<Tril> I thought you meant "intro" as in a white paper explaining the mission , like 1-3 pages
<binEng> hcf: more like an explained navigation bar
<Tril> our FAQ is not a faq-sized document
<hcf> binEng: yeah, an index w/ descs
<Beholder> Tril:  Nope, it can have a link to the 1-3 page document.   Check out members.xoom.com/unios/projectgoals.html
<Beholder> Tril: Nothing complicated.  A whitepaper is usually technical
<Tril> I do agree the /index.html should have a short description of what tunes is. 
<hcf> back to page colors for a moment
<hcf> i force my chosen colors
<hcf> thus page colors dont matter to me
<Tril> Beholder:  see tunes.html ("root project") for short blurbs of what the project is.
<Tril> hcf: so?
<abi> so is NT
<hcf> abi: forget so
<abi> hcf: I forgot so
<hcf> Tril: so perhaps a tunes color scheme would apropriate
<hcf> abi: forget NT ever existed ;)
<abi> hcf, I didn't have anything matching nt ever existed ;)
06:20pm
<Tril> hcf: huh? a tunes color scheme is appropriate? I thought you were saying a color scheme is irrelevant
<hcf> Tril: i changed my tune
<Tril> hcf: what are your forced colors
<Tril> Beholder: what are you doing?
<hcf> bg: gray, fg: black, non-visited links: white, visited links: black
π binEng/#tunes is still HTMLing
<Tril> binEng: I think the poster of each headline should be on the left, under the date
<hcf> Tril: my chose for doing my own (non-tunes) pages, when i do em, will be w/o color
<hcf> s/do em/do em properly/
<binEng> tril, k
<Beholder> tril:  Trying to do a logo
<binEng> I updated the page again. I need some advise now.
<binEng> Should I remove the leftmost column, and put the navigation... where?
06:30pm
<Beholder> bin:  I like it on the left, but I'm biased
<binEng> If I moved it, the description and news would get more space... but the navigation bar needs some other valuable space anyway
<Beholder> Tril: What about the "Tunes is a Useful, Nevertheless Expedient System"  I know that it's the key to the name of the system, but I think it's a little weak for the title page.  
<Tril> the expanded acronym doesn't haev to be on the /
<Beholder> Tril: I know this is gonna sound bad, but how about "Tunes : The Universal Operating System"?
<Tril> can I flame you for that?
<Tril> :)
<binEng> heh, what a compromise :)
<Tril> Tunes is not capitalized correctly:)  "The" is wrong, because there is no single universal OS.  Universal needs to be defined.  And TUNES is NOT an OS!
<Tril> It was right before, when it said Reflective Computing.
<Tril> Reflective computing means a changeable system which can be adapted to any user needs
<binEng> Should I remove that text, then?
<Tril> binEng: what?
<binEng> "Tunes is a Useful, Nevertheless Expedient System
<binEng> "
<Beholder> Tril:  I agree my idea was bad, but no one knows what Reflective computing means
<Beholder> ... other than us.. :)
<Beholder> ... barely :)
<binEng> yeah
<Beholder> bin: Not until we find somthing better
<Beholder> bin: Sorry, IF we find something better :)
<Tril> Exactly. Then that is the purpose of our project: to explain reflective computing and make an implementation of one to demonstrate the concept.
<Tril> it's good for a title, then
<Tril> it should say "TUNES Reflective Computing" followed immediately by a concise, simlpe exlpanation of what reflection is AND that we are trying to design and build one.
<Tril> unless... you want to go higher to the philosophy "libertarian ideas in computing, using reflection as the means to do so"
06:40pm
<Tril> I hope you are looking at the tunes.html because if that isnt good for a main page then you should critize it.
<binEng> I'm just using the text there to show how the main page will look - I don't plan to have the exact contents there.
<Tril> I meant  www2.tunes.org/tunes.html, not your tunes.html
<binEng> http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes2.html
<binEng> whadda say?
<_QZ> accelX?
<abi> rumour has it accelX is not free or fast
<_QZ> that also doesnt work that well
<Tril> bteter than what we've got..  
<Tril> i haev to go...
π Tril/#TUNES is away: (bbiab) [BX-MsgLog Off]
<_QZ> abi: forget accelX
<abi> _QZ: I forgot accelx
<binEng> Beholder: what do you think about tunes2.html ?
<_QZ> accelX is a fast X server but is not free
<_QZ> accelX?
<abi> i heard accelX was a fast X server but is not free
<_QZ> brix?
<abi> brix is at http://www.qzx.com/brix
<hcf> binEng: i prefer nav @ top b4 all else
<binEng> k
<binEng> before the explaination too?
<hcf> binEng: yes, b4 ALL ELSE
<_QZ> brix is also a portable protected preemptive multithreading multiuser object-oriented high-speed operating system
<abi> okay, _QZ.
<_QZ> brix?
<abi> brix is at http://www.qzx.com/brix or a portable protected preemptive multithreading multiuser object-oriented high-speed operating system
<_QZ> abi: forget brix
<abi> _QZ: I forgot brix
06:50pm
<Beholder> bin: Put a horziontal bar after the philosophy, and before the nav and news
<Beholder> bin: I got a logo (not real good), you want to put it on?
<_QZ> brix is a free portable protected preemptive pervasive-multithreading multiuser object-oriented high-speed distributed operating system located at http://www.qzx.com/brix
<_QZ> brix?
<abi> brix is a free portable protected preemptive pervasive-multithreading multiuser object-oriented high-speed distributed operating system located at http://www.qzx.com/brix
<hcf> _QZ: wtf?
<Beholder> bin: never mind, it's huge, and it looks crappy
<_QZ> hcf: there now the stupid bot has it correct
<hcf> _QZ: plz use /msg when doing stuff like that
<_QZ> sorry
<binEng> Beholder, I could put it up just to place it
<Beholder> QZ:  How are you doing distributed computing?
<Beholder> QZ: I mean how does BRiX do it?
ωνω SignOff Beholder: #TUNES (Read error to Beholder[ppp-201.m2-4.sub.ican.net]: Connection reset by peer)
ωνω hcf has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topic: BRiX, tunes site design, and?
<hcf> _QZ: whatcha think of holding weekly #tunes irc meetings?
>>> hcf [nef@escher.sdi.agate.net] requested PING 915505271 from #tunes
07:00pm
ωνω hcf has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <URL:http://www2.tunes.org>. current topics: VOID
<_QZ> meetings?
<binEng> have a new look at tunes.html
<binEng> QZ: here in IRC
07:10pm
<_QZ> meetings for what?
<binEng> oups, hcf said that :)
<_QZ> any of u guys married?
<binEng> not very
<_QZ> 25 Snappy Comebacks To The Question ...
<_QZ> "Why aren't you married yet?"
<hcf> _QZ: dont paste em
<_QZ> 8. My fiance is awaiting parole.
<_QZ> :)
<_QZ> hcf: damnit i like to paste
<_QZ> === WARNING: Fake dcc handshake detected! [a952f482]
<_QZ> binEng: ?
<binEng> huh?
<hcf> _QZ: whatcha think of holding weekly #tunes irc meetings?
<hcf> for discussion
<hcf> decissions
<hcf> chaos
<_QZ> ok
<hcf> for tunes etc
<_QZ> i guess its better then what we have now
<_QZ> a meeting will force everyone to talk about tunes
<_QZ> and maybe something will get done
<_QZ> just dont do it on saturday night
<_QZ> i play paintball then
<binEng> hey, look at that page! http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html
<binEng> Would Friday be better?
<hcf> _QZ: what r ur times of availability for meetings?
<_QZ> binEng: why are u trying to dcc chat me?
<_QZ> any day, 6pm-12pm mountain time
<_QZ> cept saturday
<_QZ> 25. (Bonus reply ... for single moms) Because having a husband and a child would be redundant.
<_QZ> :)
<binEng> So look at that dmn page
<_QZ> what page
<binEng> http://members.xoom.com/unios/tunes.html
<hcf> binEng: i hav, comment coming real soon now
π binEng/#tunes is awaiting
<_QZ> ACK
07:20pm
<_QZ> yellow is bad
<hcf> _QZ: is this 'Snappy Comebacks' thing on the web or something?
<binEng> bad? :)
<hcf> yellow is cowardice
<binEng> and you suggest?
<hcf> _QZ: why'd u do that?
<_QZ> uhh bineng had me do it to him :)
<binEng> I didn't need that comment, QZ :)
<binEng> anyway... I should be sleeping long ago... catch you another day.
<_QZ> binEng: why do u have a tunes page on xoom?
<binEng> just a draft, QZ
<binEng> so.
<hcf> binEng: to me, having nav anchors hav descriptions is redundant
<hcf> scratch that
<binEng> explain
<hcf> the nav section u use on this page, did u plan for it to be on ~every page?
<binEng> not the explaining texts.
<hcf> to me, it seems to belong on a sitemap/index page
<hcf> s/it/the nav descs
<binEng> perhaps...
<_QZ> ADULT: A person who has stopped growing at both ends and is now growing in the middle.
<binEng> :)
<_QZ> BEAUTY PARLOR: A place where women curl up and dye.
π hcf/#tunes *sighs*
<_QZ> :)
<_QZ> SECRET: Something you tell to one person at a time.
<_QZ> SKELETON: A bunch of bones with the person scraped off.
07:30pm
<_QZ> "Our bombs are smarter than the average high school student.  At least they can find Kuwait."  --A.
<_QZ> Whitney Brown
<_QZ> sad but true
<binEng> what, a high school student can't that?
<hcf> why would one need to find kuwait?
<hcf> s/to/to be able to/
<_QZ> "The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four Americans is suffering from some form of
<_QZ> mental illness.  Think of your three best friends.  If they are okay, then it's you."  --Rita Mae
<_QZ> Brown
07:40pm
<hcf> binEng?
<binEng> ya
<hcf> how about something like this:
<hcf> [main:sitemap:faq:collaboration:subprojects:review:miscellanious]
<hcf> centered @ top of each page
<binEng> sounds good
<hcf> the sitemap then lists each of those links w/ descs, and sublinks
<hcf> s/sublinks/sublinks w\/ descs/
<binEng> I'll see what I can do tomorrow
ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250090.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes
<tcn> hi
<binEng> hi
<tcn> What's up tonight?
<hcf> binEng: also, i like path-like nav, example:
<hcf> lets say i'm looking at http://members.xoom.com/unios/docs/mos_abstract.html
<hcf> the path-like nav would be [xoom:unios:documents:mos_abstract]
<binEng> that's good
<hcf> the 1st 3 would be links to the index.htmls of those dirs
<binEng> yes... like Yahoo has
<hcf> and the mos_abstract would self-refering
<hcf> yeah
07:50pm
<binEng> absolute reference to the same doc.
<binEng> k...
<binEng> bye
<_QZ> i got a pic for u guys
ωνω SignOff binEng: #TUNES (Leaving)
<hcf> s/guys/~ppl/
<_QZ> www.qzx.com/Starrw_1.jpg
<hcf> tcn: sup?
<_QZ> wait a second
<tcn> hcf: Nothing, just got home
<_QZ> ok now its up
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> the death cigar
<tcn> Starr Vader
<_QZ> heh
<tcn> QZ, does your protected mode stuff work good?
08:00pm
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250090.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 915508661 from #tunes
<_QZ> yes
<tcn> Hey, I just found someone else working on pmode..
<tcn> qz, do you have a V86 handler for making BIOS calls and shit from pmode?
<tcn> whois LinuxUser
<abi> LinuxUser is using paging when I switch to PMODE!!
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> brix does not use the bios
<_QZ> wtf?
<tcn> He was on IRC earlier asking for help with pmode
08:10pm
<tcn> Anyways, I found a decent V86 handler.. just getting pmode to start up right is the problem. Congrats on getting past that hurdle.. :)
<_QZ> hahah that was a bitch
<tcn> oui
<_QZ> bochs is wonderful at debugging pmode 
<_QZ> it will tell u the exact reason why its not working
<tcn> Did it costs mucho dinero?
<_QZ> bochs is free
<_QZ> its a PC emulator
<_QZ> runs in linux, windows, etc...
<tcn> cool.. where is it?
<tcn> abi, where's bochs?
<abi> rumour has it bochs is sloooooooooow
<tcn> abi, I don't care if it's slow!
<hcf> abi: bochs is also at www.bochs.com
<abi> okay, hcf.
<_QZ> hcf: cant u make abi say "hcf: kewl, thanks" instead of "okay, hcf"?
<hcf> _QZ: yes, i can
<tcn> abi, be alonzotg
<abi> om
<hcf> will i do it? perhaps, but not soon, thers more pressing issues for abi
<tcn> like?
<hcf> fixing bugs that cos crashes
08:20pm
ωνω lar1 [larman@2Cust3.tnt31.sfo3.da.uu.net] has joined #tunes
<lar1> Hi!!!
<tcn> howdy
<tcn> Hey, do you have this? http://home7.swipnet.se/~w-71548/PMTUTOR.zip
<lar1> I just kicked major ass in a StarCraft B.net game!
<lar1> No... I'll get and read. 
<tcn> Heh.. my little bro plays battlenet
<lar1> Tonight I plan on reading up big time on PMODE, on tommoarw I start coding.
<tcn> He's only good when he can cheat though
<lar1> Hmmm, I don't cheat...
<_QZ> man we found this kewl comic in the paper that has this guy (bill) using the cdrom tray as a coffee cup holder and its talks about how bill's co-workers slowly began to suspect that bill had lied about having a masters in cs
<lar1> Takes the fun away
<tcn> lar1: yup
<tcn> lar1: defeats the purpose of playing
<_QZ> i am modifying the words to make fun of the company that services our machines at work and then im gonna put it as wallpaper on every machine
<lar1> tcn:  When do you want to start coding the PMODE stuff?
<lar1> _QZ: HEHEHE, sounds good!
<tcn> _QZ: Someone at college found a .mpg of an office security camera. It shows this guy in a cubicle.. slams the keyboard a couple times.. starts smacking the monitor.. then the monitor falls off the desk & rolls out into the hall, and you see the guy next..
<tcn> .. door standing up in his cubicle like "you allright over there?"
<lar1> lol!
<tcn> what's lol?
<_QZ> http://www.qzx.com/bill.gif
<lar1> Laugh out loud
<_QZ> tcn: i have that mpeg
<lar1> Where did you get it?
<_QZ> laughing
<lar1> (the mpeg)
<_QZ> it was emailed to me
<_QZ> i should still have it
<lar1> How big is it?
<_QZ> -rw-rw-r--   1 brand    brand      425988 Jun 28  1998 badday.mpg
<tcn> QZ: yeah, that's it!
08:30pm
<lar1> Oooooo, can someone send it to me?
<lar1> BRB -- Dinner
<tcn> later.
ωνω lar1 is now known as lar1_eating
<lar1_eating> Thanks _QZ!
<_QZ> tcn: did u see that bill.gif?
<tcn> yeah.. cool
<_QZ> i need to think of soemthing to put in the two bubbles
<tcn> Time to work on pmode
<tcn> later
ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Leaving)
08:40pm
π Tril/#TUNES is back from the dead. Gone 1 hrs 54 min 31 secs
<lar1_eating> BBL -- mom needs to use internet
08:50pm
ωνω lar1_eating is now known as lar1
ωνω SignOff lar1: #TUNES (Leaving)
<hcf> Tril?
<abi> Tril is going to log off now ... have a nice day!
<hcf> abi: forget Tril
<abi> hcf: I forgot tril
<hcf> Tril: the 'u here?' annoyance wasnt in the code, it was "here is <reply> u betcha, $who", which iv removed
<hcf> now, i just need to fix the responding to 'nick: text?' thing
<Tril> abi picks up "am" in factoids?
<abi> tril: wish i knew
09:00pm
<Tril> I am very annoyed at abi.
<Tril> tril?
<abi> it has been said that tril is very annoyed at abi.
<Tril> I wonder why.
<Tril> Tril?
<abi> somebody said Tril was very annoyed at abi.
π Tril/#TUNES is foo
<Tril> abi: Tril?
<abi> you are, like, very annoyed at abi
<Tril> I'm foo
<Tril> abi tril?
<abi> wish i knew, tril
<hcf> abi: who am i?
<abi> well, hcf is mailto:nef@bespin.ml.org or www2.tunes.org/~nef/
09:10pm
<_QZ> all right
<_QZ> who is putting shit in abi
<_QZ> _QZ?
<abi> well, _QZ is a faggot!
<Tril> alonzotg?
<abi> alonzotg is a fag
<Tril> I think she needs to clean up her language.
<Tril> she seems to be very anti-gay.
<_QZ> abi needs bad word detection
<_QZ> and should ignore any sentence with bad words
ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250113.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes
<tcn> what's up?
<abi> i guess up is http://slashdot.org/ or underground piano
<_QZ> haha
<Tril> hi tcn just reading email
<_QZ> sup?
<tcn> Reading IRC logs
<Tril> abi, sup is ahhhhh yeahhh
<_QZ> hmm abi is speechless
<tcn> abi, sup?
<abi> sup is ahhhhh yeahhh
<tcn> I got it..
<Tril> hmm abi?
<abi> abi is, like, the little girl borg with a big brain
<tcn> abi: sup is <reply> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
<abi> ...but sup is ahhhhh yeahhh...
<tcn> abi: no, sup is <reply> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
<abi> okay, tcn.
<tcn> abi, sup!!
<abi> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
<_QZ> haha
<tcn> Ok, so we need a list of what everyone is working on.. prototypes and stuff..
<tcn> Without having to look at each person's home page
<Tril> everyone agrees..now who is going to make the page?
<tcn> It should have a way for everyone to instantly update their listing..
<tcn> or just use CVS
<tcn> I'll make it, if everyone tells me what the hell they're doing ;)
<tcn> Looks like most of us will be busy with collge by Monday
<Tril> It is Monday
<Tril> I go to college tomorrow.
<hcf> _QZ: what r 'bad words'?
<Tril> but i won't be that busy
<tcn> right.. I get till next Tuesday.
<Tril> I added "list of what everybody is working on" to the TODO wiki page.
<tcn> Hopefully I won't be so overloaded.. I'm taking 2 courses over the net, no classes :)
<tcn> Oh yeah, forgot about Wiki. that's cool
<_QZ> hcf: anything offensive
09:20pm
<hcf> _QZ: whats 'offensive'?
<_QZ> fag, fuck, shit, ass, ...
<_QZ> gay
<_QZ> cock sucker, homo,
<tcn> abi: bill gates is also a bone smuggler
<abi> okay, tcn.
<_QZ> dick
<Tril> Subject: DON'T DELETE THIS MESSAGE -- FOLDER INTERNAL DATA
<_QZ> cock smoker
<tcn> brown-hatter
<_QZ> i doubt anyone would be telling abi howto cock a gun so u can probalby just ban the word cock
<tcn> abi, what's _qz?
<abi> _qz is the creator of BRiX, and webmaster of http://www.qzx.com
<tcn> abi, qz?
<abi> i think qz is the two least used letters of the alphabet
<_QZ> tcn: u dont need to type out the question, "_qz?" does the same job
<tcn> _qz?
<abi> it has been said that _qz is the creator of BRiX, and webmaster of http://www.qzx.com
<tcn> sup abi!
<tcn> abi, sup?
<abi> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
<_QZ> sup?
<abi> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
<tcn> be alonzotg
<abi> om
<_QZ> go postal
<tcn> abi, go postal!!!!!!!!!!!!
<abi> *ARG* I've had it Up To HERE! WITH YOU FOLKS!!!!!!
<_QZ> maybe ya have to tell abi those
<Tril> tunes?
<abi> tunes is, like, in my head
<_QZ> hcf: u might wanna remove abi's "leave #tunes" feature
<hcf> go postal <-- no 'abi: ', no '?'
<hcf> _QZ: why?
<_QZ> abi: leave #tunes
<abi> goodbye, _QZ.
ωνω abi [nef@bespin.ml.org] has left #tunes []
<hcf> yeah
<hcf> so
<_QZ> thats why
ωνω abi [nef@bespin.ml.org] has joined #tunes
<Tril> i just  /msg abi join #tunes
<Tril> can't u do that?
<_QZ> yes but abi listens to all correct?
<_QZ> so any1 could have abi leave
<tcn> be terminator
<abi> FUCK  YOU  ASSHOLE
<_QZ> abi: bad girl
<hcf> abi: bad girl
<abi> plz, spank me, hcf
<_QZ> abi: bad girl
<abi> plz, spank me, _QZ
<_QZ> hey
<abi> hey, _QZ
<_QZ> damnit u
<Tril> r there sex bots?
<Tril> some lusers wouldn't notice
<tcn> haha
<_QZ> abi: bad girl
<abi> i'm sorry _QZ, i will goto sleep now
<tcn> Prolly wouldn't be hard to sucker someone with one, tril
09:30pm
<tcn> Just make it say stuff like "me so horny" and "what's your number?"
<hcf> Tril: abi's allowed_channels: #tunes,#tunes_test
<_QZ> number?
<tcn> hehe, have it tell people it's a 13 yr old girl and it wants to meet them at some cheap motel on the other side of the country, and watch some child molester go there
ωνω ultima [ultima@user-37kbb1r.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #tunes
<ultima> hmm
<ultima> window next
<tcn> howdy
<_QZ> abi: shutdown
<abi> System reboot in 1 minute
<ultima> grr
<ultima> dsfsdf
<_QZ> Tril: bespin is going down
<ultima> why is bespin going down
<_QZ> ultima: abi said so
<Tril> _QZ: ok let me check
ωνω SignOff ultima: #TUNES (ircII EPIC4pre2 -- Accept no limitations)
<Tril> _QZ shutdown isn't running. maybe she will wait until it's time to try running it?
<Tril> or it might be a factoid
π hcf/#tunes watches Tril catch on
<_QZ> heh
<Tril> hcf:can abi do /me?
<hcf> not sure
π hcf/#tunes checks
<_QZ> abit: trout
<abi> trout is <me> wacks _QZ upside the head with a large trout
<_QZ> well that didnt work :)
<tcn> abi, fire!
<abi> /me shoots <you> in the head
<tcn> didn't work
<_QZ> abi: trout
<abi> trout is <act> wacks _QZ upside the head with a large trout
<Tril> <action> doesn't work either
<_QZ> neither does do
<_QZ> abi: die
<abi> well, die is AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.........
09:40pm
<_QZ> abi: d
<abi> d is </me> thinks _QZ should die
<_QZ> oh well
<_QZ> abi: die
<abi> _QZ: NO, YOU DIE!!!
<tcn> fall
<_QZ> fall?
<abi> Help! I've fallen and I can't get up!
<hcf> tcn: what r ur toafm?
<abi> hi
<abi> my toafm is always
<_QZ> toafm?
<abi> toafm is times of availability for meetings or yafla
π hcf/#tunes *smirks* in Tril's general direction
<abi> hmm
<tcn> hcf: lesse.. my toafm.. Weekdays 1100-1900, Weekends 0500-1900, roughly
<tcn> hcf: But never on Mon/Tues/Fri
<hcf> uhm, what timezone?
<tcn> GMT
<tcn> Too bad everyone didn't just use GMT. Timezones suck.
<Tril> hcf: you keeping record of everyone's time?
<tcn> tril: he's prolly feeding it to abi, too
<hcf> tcn: no
<tcn> heh
<hcf> Tril: yeah, trying to find a proper meeting time
<abi> #tunes_test test 1 2
<hcf> hmm, that didnt work
<Tril> abi, your online help is sparse
<tcn> Hey, anyone else want to change TUNES to Tunes and drop the acronym?
<hcf> Tril: say uses the current channel rite now, optional channel spec coming soon
<_QZ> abi: do u have a help system?
<abi> i don't know, _qz
<_QZ> abi: can u help me?
<abi> _qz: wish i knew
<hcf> _QZ: 'abi: help'
09:50pm
<abi> u r beyond help, _QZ
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250113.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 915515334 from #tunes
<Tril> wtf does my middle button paste twice in gpm
<_QZ> operator error?
<_QZ> wtf is the sky blue
<hcf> the sky is black not blue
<tcn> wtf?
<abi> wtf is the sky blue
<_QZ> hehe
<Tril> _QZ, every time?
<_QZ> Tril: persistent operator
10:00pm
<hcf> <tcn> Ok, so we need a list of what everyone is working on.. prototypes and stuff..
<_QZ> eh?
<hcf> this list ever gonna happen?
<tcn> Yeah, what are you all working on?
<hcf> s/you/we/
<abi> tril is developing a secure reflective abstraction system
<tcn> Ok, I'll just say we're all playing with abi
<tcn> How do you get abi to say stuff like that?
<hcf> tcn: u must be +o and do '/msg abi <password> say <text>'
<tcn> oh
<abi> that's a different +o than on the channel, it's in a file in my dir
<Tril> make abi reflective
<hcf> +o is the user owner flag
<Tril> abi, source for say?
<abi> tril: i haven't a clue
<Tril> abi, source for say is 0ffcca56b6a300af
<abi> ok, tril, I just modified my source and recompiled.  I feel much better now.
<Tril> abi, source for say?
<abi> source for say is 0ffcca56b6a300af
10:10pm
<Tril> abi, will you write tunes for me?
<abi> i don't know, tril
<abi> *yawn*
<_QZ> what is source for say?
<abi> source for say is 0ffcca56b6a300af
<_QZ> that was for tril, not abi
<abi> it was me, abi, u dumb shit
<tcn> Hey, anyone tried putting lists inside tables in HTML?
<_QZ> tcn: ofcourse
<_QZ> tcn: look at the brix pages
<tcn> ok, if it works, I'll do it.. well, if it works with Lynx.
<tcn> I use Lynx quite a bit
<Tril> -qz trying to get abi to modify her source at a fine grain level, just dreaming
<tcn> Is abi reflective?
<Tril> just as much as perl is, not at all
<tcn> hehe.. perl is all syntactic sugar, crappy semantics
<Tril> qz didnt fix the common questions about brix to put <p> before the first question
<Tril> (that was the only misformatting i saw in lynx)
10:20pm
<_QZ> Tril: that was a problem with the version of lynx that YOU had
<tcn> The one that came w/ Debian 2.0 is better
<tcn> I just realized yesterday that I've been using the same Linux distribution I installed before I started college in 1997
<Tril> tcn: Slack 2.x?
<Tril> i use slackware now but I have a copy of redhat to try and i'm gonna switch to debian when 2.1 comes out
<_QZ> hmm
<_QZ> i am using Lynx Version 2-4-2
<Tril> should we add distro to the tunes member page?
<_QZ> and it shows the page fine
<_QZ> Lynx Version 2.7.1 (1997) doesn't
<Tril> qz I thought I tried lots of versions ( I have 3 or 4) and most of them didnt work right
ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Ping timeout for tcn[cci-209150250113.clarityconnect.net])
<_QZ> Tril: get an older version :)
ωνω tcn [tcn@cci-209150250113.clarityconnect.net] has joined #tunes
<Tril> tcn how long u been desynched
<tcn> just a second, I think
<tcn> tril: I think it's Slack 3.0
<Tril> yeah that was a while ago..
10:30pm
<tcn> hcf: What should I say you're working on? abi the infobot?
<Tril> tcn: hcf is the irc channel project coordinator
<tcn> ok
<Tril> he does everything involving adding "features" to the channel :)
<Tril> he is working on a channel topics (maybe agenda?) page
<Tril> rite hcf?
<_QZ> there i added yer stinkin <p>
<abi> no, i'm the coordinator, hcf is just a puppet
<hcf> Tril: yeah
<Tril> Qz now u can add a "Best viewed by any browser" icon, www.anybrowser.org/campaign/
<Tril> oh wait does it still pop up that anti-IE crap
<Tril> "Best viewed with any browser except IE"
<abi> pages should be best viewed by any browser.
<Tril> ANY browser?????
<abi> ANY browser is http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/
ωνω Tril has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <www2.tunes.org>. current topics: IRC Ventriloquism
<tcn> How about Best viewed with no web browser :)  cat, more, less...
<hcf> best viewed with ircii
<Tril> best viewed with netcat -l hostname.com 80|less :)
10:40pm
<tcn> Hmm, should I list the projects and show who's working on them, or list the people and say what project they're working on...?
ωνω Tril has changed the topic on channel #TUNES to: TUNES project <www2.tunes.org>. current topics: This page best viewed with <furbys>
<Tril> foo,bar,baz,quux,furby. kind of like  un,deu,tua,horsengoggle
<Tril> horsengoggle is not the numeral 4 in German
<tcn> horsengoggle?
<abi> horsengoggle is not the numeral 4 in German
<Tril> horsengoggle is also a game
<abi> okay, Tril.
>>> tcn [tcn@cci-209150250113.clarityconnect.net] requested PING 915518238 from #tunes
<Tril> if you are at camp and there is leftover food that more than one person wants, you count to 3 in German and then hold out your hands with some number of fingers up
<Tril> (while saying horsengoggle instea of 4)
<Tril> then add up everyone's fingers and count heads around the table and the last person you land on gets the booty
<Tril> furby is not the fifth meta-syntactic variable
<hcf> abi: source for say?
<Tril> hcf: qz must have made her forget it
<hcf> Tril: no
<hcf> she wont publicly say it, would is ironic
<hcf> s/would/which/
<hcf> i did: source for say is if($msg=~/^say /i){&status("SAY:<$who>:$'.\n");&say($');return 'NOREPLY';}
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> tril: wish i knew
<Tril> abi, are you here is <reply> yes|no
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> yes
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> yes
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> i heard are you here was no
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> yes
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> yes
<Tril> abi, are you here?
<abi> it has been said that are you here is no
<tcn> are you here?
<abi> yes
<Tril> Not very random.
<tcn> tril, are you here?
<tcn> someone asked if you are here?
10:50pm
<tcn> good
<hcf> abi: join #tunes_test
<hcf> abi: join #tunes_test
<tcn> abi, sup?
<abi> awwwwwwwww yeahhh...
11:00pm
<_QZ> have u guys seen a furby?
<tcn> can't say I have
<_QZ> i saw one tonight at my neighbors house
<_QZ> stupid little things
<tcn> wtf are they?
<_QZ> its a kids toy
<tcn> like a talking doll?
<_QZ> looks like an owl without legs
<_QZ> big eyes, mouth and ears
<_QZ> and it talks and moves
<Tril> they say really stupid things
<_QZ> ya
<_QZ> they have to learn
<_QZ> sorta
<_QZ> they start out speaking furbish
<Tril> i have not met one, just read about em
<tcn> The same way abi "learns"
<_QZ> and they gradually learn english
<_QZ> no
<_QZ> the speach is built in
<tcn> oh.. hahahaha.. that's cheesy
<_QZ> it just gradually "learns" to say more of it
<hcf> over time, it just starts talking english
<_QZ> and it has an ir sensor so it can detect other furbys
<_QZ> and do special things around them
<tcn> like what?
<_QZ> i dont know
<tcn> do the screw? haha
<hcf> like humping
<_QZ> haha
<tcn> the furby mating call.. haha
<hcf> "The Joy of Furby Sex"
<Tril> they burp at each other i think
<_QZ> Tril: do u remember the url to that furby autopsy page?
<tcn> I saw that autopsy thing on slashdot
<_QZ> ok
<tcn> at the bottom
<tcn> Age: 3 days.. hahaha
<tcn> DOA
<Tril> qz it's still at http://www2.tunes.org/cgi-bin/TunesWiki?IRC
<Tril> the defunct topics list (hcf won't use wiki)
11:10pm
<Tril> hmm, i got an interesting mail from alonzo
<Tril> The achievement of such would be a monument on the par
<Tril> with Mt. Rushmore, It would be of incalculable benefit to every living soul on this
<Tril> planet, Even the Starving Children of Somolia, A shoe shiner in Calcutta, An
<Tril> insurance salesman in Idaho, A stray dog in Argentina, and especailly me.
<_QZ> acheivement of what?
<Tril> "A Universal Linker"... I am not quite sure what he meant
<tcn> See yall
ωνω SignOff tcn: #TUNES (Leaving)
11:20pm
<Tril> time to sleep
ωνω SignOff Tril: #TUNES (Tril has no reason)
11:30pm
ωνω SignOff hcf: #TUNES (Leaving)
[msg(TUNES)] newlog 1999.0105
IRC log ended Tue Jan  5 00:00:01 1999